Testwiki:Requests for deletion/Requests/2011/List of ThunderClan characters

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not change it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No more changes should be made to this discussion.

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List of ThunderClan characters

List of ThunderClan characters (edit · talk · history · links · watch · logs · delete)

Either way has nominated this page for deletion for the reason: There is no context given. What is a Thunderclan? Where is it from? And there is no discussion of its notability anywhere. It's been tagged for clean up for months, but nothing done on it.

Please discuss this request below, but keep in mind that you shouldn't vote on everything and that there may be options other than "keep" or "delete", such as merging.

Discussion

• Delete - no assertion of notability, and no sources (so I suspect it's original research). Kansan ^(talk) 02:41, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

  Looking for third party sources. --SEPTActaMTA8235 (talk) 15:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

• Comment - ThunderClan is an important aspect of the Warriors (book series) universe. There is a mirror article on enWP. I would be happy to help clean this up if it is kept. PrincessofLlyr ^talk 03:05, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

  PrincessofLlyr, can you please help us rescue this article? --SEPTActaMTA8235 (talk) 15:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

• Weak delete: Even if ThunderClan is notable, I doubt this list of characters is Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 03:19, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
• It is useful to look at what en considers notable, but, of course, notability does not automatically transfer over. For our purposes, I would think a section in the main Warriors (book series) should be sufficient. Kansan ^(talk) 03:27, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

  I will be bold and do some merging, if you don't mind. --SEPTActaMTA8235 (talk) 16:00, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

• Merge to a page called List of characters in the Warriors series.Delete and start over. --SEPTActaMTA8235 (talk) 15:45, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
• Delete pure original research. Any adequately sourced content (I see none) can be merged into Warriors (book series). As for ThunderClan itself, these Google News results comprise solely passing mentions. This confers no notability. Anything from the Warriors series (characters, clans, concepts) ought to be merged into the main article. Goodvac (talk) 21:52, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

  If this gets deleted can you userfy it? --SEPTActaMTA8235 (talk) 21:52, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

  Why would I userfy this and how would I? I'm not an admin. Goodvac (talk) 21:54, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

• Merge the major characters into the Warriors (book series) page, and then delete.--Gordonrox24 | ^Talk 22:00, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

  If you please, I'd prefer to keep it. I'll get a team together and tidy it up. It is not from OR, it is from the book itself. It is not copied, nor is it Original Research. I have seen that this Wikipedia may not want my WikiProject, but I will keep all pages and make them as good as I can. That's why I made WikiProject Warriors. There IS a link in my signature (I put it there in case anyone wants to check it out) and if no one wants it yet, I'll userfy it onto my own userspace. I'm a decent person, and I made that page with no intention to use my own research for it. I read, mark a useful page, and write it all down here. I never made it just so it could be merged or deleted. I made it so that it would have its own article. Look at the main English Wikipedia, for goodness' sake! Do you seriously think that it started out the way it is now? No! The articles started out short and the members MADE them long. Please keep it. Keep it. Please. Loudclaw/Hey, let's collaborate!/Desk/WP:Warriors/My changes 22:12, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

  If you read my explanation on your talk page, you will find that this page is indeed OR. The information derives from your personal knowledge of the series. Goodvac (talk) 22:16, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

  I give up! I'll just userfy this and allow others to fix it up. It doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell! I'm going to try and conclude this. Loudclaw/Hey, let's collaborate!/Desk/WP:Warriors/My changes 22:20, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

  Um, may I? Loudclaw/Hey, let's collaborate!/Desk/WP:Warriors/My changes 22:31, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

  Feel free to place anything in your userspace, so long as it abides by Wikipedia:User page. Goodvac (talk) 22:34, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, let's resume. There is a mirror page on en, and I believe that it must remain. Yes, we are our own wiki, but didn't we take some of the policies from en? We are a smaller, simpler, wikipedia that must grow. For every page that we add, we become larger. We will never be as big as en, but we must try. I can search for sources around the Internet (which is hard for me to do, as I mostly head here for my information), or I can get a team of people to help me. I'm not the best one to ask to categorize, copy-edit, even simplify, but I am a good source of information. I only wish that OR were less restrictive for articles about books, as it is hard to find a source except the actual book. I find reviews on every book I own, but they never give much information. Especially not about the characters. That's my opinion. Loudclaw/Hey, let's collaborate!/Desk/WP:Warriors/My changes 22:29, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

$QUALITY>QUANTITY$ --SEPTActaMTA8235 (talk) 17:00, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

The presence of a page on en does not translate to the need to have the same page here. Just because en has it doesn't mean that they have evaluated the notability of the subject.
OR applies to all articles because if people start concocting material, we would not know what to trust and what not to trust as accurate. We can use only reliable, third-party references. For books, this mostly comes in the form of reviews, but with regards to Warriors, the lack of coverage in book reviews is a strong indication of non-notability. Goodvac (talk) 22:37, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

The fact that you cannot find sources proves that this is not a notable subject. If this was notable, you would find good coverage in many other sources. If the only source you can use is the book itself, it's not proving that these characters are notable. It would be more appropriate for a fan Wikia than Simple English Wikipedia. Either way (talk) 23:01, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I've worked long and hard to try and make it good. And all that leads to THIS? You disgust me. Fine. Merge is my new vote. Ignore my first. Strike it for me. Loudclaw/Hey, let's collaborate!/Desk/WP:Warriors/My changes 00:33, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

I disgust you because...? Your article doesn't meet our notability guidelines? Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. Either way (talk) 00:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

All right, that's it. Admins, please close it because I have agreed to merge it, as the very slight majority has said to do. Moving out of userspace very soon to merge into the Book Series article. Loudclaw/Hey, let's collaborate!/Desk/WP:Warriors/My changes 00:39, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Just because you want it merged doesn't mean that it will be. It can still be deleted that it should be deleted overall without merger. Either way (talk) 00:42, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, merging it would mean that the information is still there and that it is in an article that is good. Loudclaw/Hey, let's collaborate!/Desk/WP:Warriors/My changes 00:44, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

That doesn't change the fact that it's OR. We can't have OR anywhere in article space. Goodvac (talk) 00:50, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

I know. So I'm going to keep it on my word document and once I have third party sources, I am going to place it back in. It will then be good. Do you agree? I have moved it back into article space after reading the post on AN/I. Loudclaw/Hey, let's collaborate!/Desk/WP:Warriors/My changes 00:57, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Seriously? It needs copy editing, expansion, referencing, cleanup...etc, etc, etc. It needs slight "npov" and "storytelling" tweaks. Make sure the refs are RELIABLE too. --SEPTActaMTA8235 (talk) 11:34, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Excuse me but I wasn't the one who did that! Yes, I occasionally have capitalization and spelling errors, but I do my best to write a NPOV and non-storytelling part. You know, I have other books too, that are good, like CATS OF THE CLANS. Yes, it's a spinoff of the Warriors series, but it also has information about most of the characters. Loudclaw/Hey, let's collaborate!/Desk/WP:Warriors/My changes 03:44, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Um, no offense, Ian. Referencing: get reliable non-primary sources. Expansion: Just add more. Copy editing: Ask Demiurge1000, she does pretty good copy-edits; I can't. NPOV: I'll try this; I'm not exactly a npov writer either. --SEPTActaMTA8235 (talk) 11:48, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

It's a he, and I will ask when I get the chance. In the meantime, we should keep as long as there have been good edits by someone within a week. Loudclaw/Hey, let's collaborate!/Desk/WP:Warriors/My changes 21:06, 8 April 2011 (UTC) .

I'm going to ask someone to make a final, deciding comment and close this discussion. Loudclaw/Hey, let's collaborate!/Desk/WP:Warriors/My changes 21:12, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Not goodvac, he's not an admin. By my count, 4 deletes, 1 merge. Looks like a delete to me. --SEPTActaMTA8235 21:22, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

All right. I'll put the article you-know-where so that we can work on it. Loudclaw/Hey, let's collaborate!/Desk/WP:Warriors/My changes 22:43, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

This request is due to close on 01:56, 12 April 2011 (UTC), seven days after it was filed, although it may be closed earlier due to WP:SNOW.

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not change it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No more changes should be made to this discussion.